Quote by QiqJoe

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

The only things that changed is that people will be needing to talk in Stonewall channel rather than Guild Chat. The guilds are still be maintained and run by the same people. The guilds still follow the same rules. We just now have two instead of one.

You are correct in the fact that most Captains/Officers all have alts in all the guilds so we can switch and invite as needed.

Quote by Experian

Q, no one in this game should need any help getting to lvl 10. And I am no longer a hardcore gamer, I am more of a social gamer now (as I stated that is what I think of KoS is, a social leveling guild).

Because of the fan base Star Wars has in general this MMO is attracting people who have never actually played an MMO before and those who have. I live in house full of gamers (literally... Mother in-law (50's), father in-law(40's), brother in-law(12)). So I personally seen people struggle with things I thought normally people didn't and it was an eye opener for me.

Quote by Experian

As for the leadership, the only leadership I ever witnessed came from Doogie and he left due to the same reasons I left.

There were some role assignment issues when the game first started and they are being worked on. Nothing clear as far as what has happened has been posted (which I think should as the assumptions all over aren't helping us move forward) but leadership is actively recruiting both Officers and Captains to assist members.

Quote by Experian

And what works for one game does not always work for another. So therefore, what worked for STO won't work 100% for SWTOR. STO in my opinion was not a good MMO to begin with, that is why I cancelled my subscription to it less than one month after buying it.

You are correct what works for one game doesn't work for all of them which personally makes me chuckle because everyone backing for why this wont work is because it didn't in other games.

This situation needed to be addressed quick and anyone even outside of an mmo that has tried to get 100's of people to agree on something that had very little time to decide knows that wasn't going to work. So the Officers knowing we were running out of space quickly stepped up and said here is a solution. I'm sure they could have posted it and said please decide but had they done that and it continued the time of this thread we would be at cap and having people complain because there isn't room for their friends or alts.

Quote by Experian

And just to make myself clear, I am not resentful or trying to be hateful. I am merely trying to convey what not just I think, but from what a larger group of people have said to me as well. That is why I had witnessed many people leaving the guild before me, why I left the guild, and I am sure others are going to leave as well. A proper guild leadership involves the members in massive decisions, not just the "officers". And one more thing, nothing this drastic had to be done so abruptly. Again, it is just a game.

I can see you aren't trying to be hateful and I appreciate you expressing the concerns of people who haven't done so themselves. It made me sad to see people leave the guild over this but if that's what they had to do to make a better gaming experience for themselves than so be it.

Honestly, there were a couple of times if someone were around to help during my leveling to 10, I would have been happy to take the help. There was one quest in particular I had to wait a couple of levels above where I should have been. I think it was just too hard for the level they specified. They're constantly fiddling difficulties; I've found that out several times along the way, most recently on a class quest that I had been working on for 4 levels and could not complete until they patched it, and it was magically easy.

I know that this isn't going to be exactly like STO. But it's a similar group of people working toward a similar goal. As far as I know, there was no problem with guild size there (or maybe I just missed it). But apparently on SWTOR there is. We're going to have to cross this bridge sooner or later, so we might as well address it now, especially since we're not sure who is and isn't active not even 4 weeks into the release. If this system doesn't work, things can still be done in the future to improve it.

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

Quote by kiddkasper

This is largely why we have the sticky Link Repository in the Holocron section. People have already done the hard work for us. It's also linked from the Welcome Center. ;)

True but I prefer in house guides when I can. It's also a good way to get people on and using the forums.

This is largely why we have the sticky Link Repository in the Holocron section. People have already done the hard work for us. It's also linked from the Welcome Center. ;)

I think a new forum section called "The Codex" might be a great place for people to post How-to's, walk-throughs, guides, etc. that can be found quickly.

Hello, by which this site works great on my phone. I could give you times of when I am going to be on but I don't even know when that is! I am mainly on from Tuesday night about 6pm central to when I decide to go to bed. Wednesday and Thursday are based off of when I wake up and go to bed Tuesday. Friday through Monday I work 7:45 pm to 6:15am yeah I know weird times. Sometimes I will play in the morning when I get home from work and sometimes it when I wake up before going to work. Nothing like mayhem and slaughter before going to work with mentally disturbed children! Justjon can tell you that is really how things work out for me. Oh yeah almost forgot. I have one of each for the republic and empire. Still haven't decided what I like but so far it has been the AI sniper.

Thank you Taher for your concern, it's nice to know I'm apprechiated. However, I'm just an one of the officer team and part of my job is to sort out the admin. The officers all work together as a team to get everything done and make sure that the members don't have to worry about the guild falling apart, lol.

We are currently short 4 officers and accepting applications, so if you or anyone else would like to help, feel free to apply. The officer workload can be quite high, especially at busy times, so there is also the Captain position for members who want to be more useful than the officers, lol. The information on these positions is in the Council Chamber forum. :)

I do like this guild. I know there are some problems on the republic side. I feel that running two or three guilds might be a little rough for one person. I feel that someone else should step up and take one of the guilds off of Zeps hands. I have ran a guild before and I know it is a lot of work. I don't have the time to put into a running a guild or even being a captian or an officer. I would not be on when a lot of the players are on. I know that handing over a guild to someone that you don't know at all is probably not an option. I get that, I gave my wow guild to my dad. I would not have given it to anyone else. I know that you guys are trying to get the guilds together and orginazed. If I am wrong in any of this I am sorry. Thanks for reading my rant.

Quote by QiqJoe

So to me, the leadership here hasn't been lazy at all -- they've been working hard to provide the best product for EVERYONE, not just the most hardcore gamers like yourself. Frankly, I appreciate that especially since I don't have the most predictable schedule to play. And it seems to me that they have come up with what appears to be a good product -- something that can accommodate more people for a more robust SWTOR experience with seemingly only cosmetic changes to guild chatting.

I don't think it was laziness as well but the result of a culmination of events. The Holiday season, the stepping down by some officers and the time to recruit new ones didn't leave much time for the Guild Leadership to take everyone's opinion on the issue. (since this is a guild that is open to everyone and we are all free to discuss it -- hopefully)

I also think that the Guild Leadership probably wasn't expecting such a negative reaction from some members, since some have come from other MMOs where they have gotten used to a certain way of doing things.

I can only speak for myself, I don't really have a problem with the solution presented by the Guild Leadership, it's definitely not the best solution but not the worst either, and every time I read a new post by an officer I get more confused with the way it's being explained.
My confusion lies with how the Guild Leadership sees Knights of Stonewall has their Flagship Guild, but on the other hand you can't really call it a Flagship, since the guild really isn't being inclusive of all members, specially those that don't want (or interested) to play a Force user class might end up feeling "penalized" for not belonging to KoS. (sorry I know it's confusing and it's hard for me to explain since English is not my lingua franca)

TL;DR KoS shouldn't be called a Flagship Guild nor should be used as a vehicle of cohesion because it's not, it will be a Guild just for Force users, while non force users will be with SoS.
True cohesion comes from the name Stonewall and not from a prefix or suffix which seems to be where the confusion might be coming from.

Now I still vote for the BH/IA guild to be called Master of Stonewall :P

Quote by Experian

I would just like to state that I am the one who had the most issue with this split of the guild and the way that the "officers" and "GL" handled me the other day. I just simply stated that I thought this split (and still believe) this split is unnecessary. To be honest, I think it is derived from laziness to go through the list and figure out who is active and who is not. I offered my opinions on how to properly work through this issue of reaching the guild cap, and the response I got from Zepari was most insulting. I do understand that this is a game, but the KoS is just a social guild from what I have seen. To pull the guild apart at the seams, not smart. You can not expect people to speak only in Stonewall Channel, and what if someone decides to ambush that channel and spout off? You have no way of correcting that situation.
As I stated in GChat when we were informed that this was going to happen, you should impliment a lvl restriction for invite (and trust me, no one is going to feel abandoned or discriminated against because they have to get to lvl 10). That rule there would most likely decrease your numbers in half. If it is an active member's alt, but he/she is not playing it, it doesn't need to be in the guild until they decide to play it.
That being said, once you get close to the cap again, you could create an alt guild. Easily done, easily executed.
And for all this "discrimination" talk, you don't think splitting the guild by class is discrimination? To be honest, that is how I felt when you announced it so abruptly. Most people are playing Jedi, and most people don't want to have a public channel rattling on on their screen.
All in all, I truly enjoyed the guild even though there were never "officers" on to conduct needed help 75% of the time I was on. And I work from home, so I am on a lot! I also was GL, RL, and Officer in multiple guilds on WoW from Vanilla to just this past July, I know how hard it is to regulate a game. But at the same time, I never did anything without asking my members what they thought (which you did not do at all in this matter, and when we gave you suggestions, you reacted defensively and accosted us with senseless reiterations of what you were going to do no matter how we felt or what we said).
But let me stress this one last point, I still hope to be friends with members of your guild and want no ill-will between us.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Experian. I only speak for myself when I say this, and only speak as just a member. But I was a part of the guild for Star Trek Online, and having some previous experience with how things were run there, I completely understand how and why the leadership is doing what they are. The game hasn't even been released for a month, so it's still too early to see who is actually playing right now. Not everyone has the luxury of working from home and being on all day every day. They are wanting to be as inclusive as possible and do what is best for all of the membership. In STO, people loved helping new people level their characters and helping out the lower ranks, so I can see why they wouldn't want a level cap. I know they helped me a lot, and I gave back as I could. A lot of other guilds seem to require time commitments and regular appearances, but from what I have seen in my limited MMO experience, this isn't your normal guild. It tries to cater to the casual player as well as the hardcore. It's about what the guild can do for you, not just what you can do for your guild.

I'm sure the leadership has considered the options carefully and that it wasn't an easy decision. But to me, dividing into multiple guilds in the game doesn't affect me much. Maybe I'm missing something, but there's nothing that prevents me from grouping with members from the other guilds for the same things that would have occurred if we were still in the same guild. I also don't see the difference in speaking in the Stonewall channel as opposed to your Guild channel -- you just set your chat to that instead. Maybe I have more faith in people not griefing or hijacking, but if it does happen, there are game moderators that can handle that.

So to me, the leadership here hasn't been lazy at all -- they've been working hard to provide the best product for EVERYONE, not just the most hardcore gamers like yourself. Frankly, I appreciate that especially since I don't have the most predictable schedule to play. And it seems to me that they have come up with what appears to be a good product -- something that can accommodate more people for a more robust SWTOR experience with seemingly only cosmetic changes to guild chatting.

Hey Knights,

I am on the usual times of the day nights after 7PM EST to about 11PM, and weekends pretty much all throughout the days.

Right now I am just on the Republic side with Soldiers of Stonewall with my Smuggler Xal.

-Kevin ~ Captain Xal Starlighter

Great Idea Jon!

Times: East Coast, Weekdays *Usually* Mon/Tues 6-9pm, Weds-Fri 7-9pm, Weekends Sat 3 - 9pm, Sunday Various times throughout the day.

Days: Weekdays: Like DakonKor, 3-4 of the 5 nights; Weekends One or both Days.

Faction: Primarily the Republic side. Once I'm done with my consular's Story who knows what toon will be next. If I'm playing solo I may be on the Empire side.

On a side note if it's my day off (which rotates weekly) I probably will be on playing an alt all or most of the day.

Hey guys,

Great idea. At the moment, I'm online all over the place as I'm on holidays and have deserted my life in favour of swtor. That'll change in about two and a half weeks. :S

Times/Days:

Weekdays - AEST 6pm-11pm Tuesday to Friday
Weekends - times between AEST 9am - 8pm depending on plans.

Translation to US time -

Weekdays - Midnight - 5am PST Tuesday to Friday
Weekends - times between 3pm - 2am PST depending on plans.

Faction: Empire generally however when I move into levelling alts, I might be working my Jedi side.

Quote by Jerath

So my gunslinger is being drafted into the Republic military as a Soldier of Stonewall?

Perhaps we need to make another guild for smugglers called Outlaws of Stonewall... :P

Ohh, I like that!

Jon...

I think this is a great idea! Once we get the information together, if you're okay with it, I can add this data to each person's entry on the Leadership thread.

Bear in mind this is "usual", but some weeks may be more or less (and every 6 or so weeks I am not home for the weekends).

Times: East Coast - Weekdays: 6pm - 9pm; Weekends: 11am - 9pm in 2-3 hours sessions.

Days: Weekdays: 3-4 of the 5 nights; Weekends: One or Both days.

Faction: Primary: Republic; Tertiary: Imperial (for Imperial Invasion night events I am going to be announcing and the 3rd story I plan to explore after the Trooper and Smuggler.

So my gunslinger is being drafted into the Republic military as a Soldier of Stonewall?

Perhaps we need to make another guild for smugglers called Outlaws of Stonewall... :P

As the primary Republic Officer, I'd like to say that the "language" used in describing what his happening needs to be handled carefully.

I think some of the more 'experienced' officers, especially those that came from STO, out of habit refer to Soldiers of Stonewall, and what will be the Non-Force Imperial split as "alt" guilds.

I personally do not see it this way. Soldiers of Stonewall is not the "alt" guild. My primary character is a Trooper, as a Trooper, he's got nothing to do with the Jedi. If anything they're a tool (snicker) for the Republic to use to further their goals.

Soldiers of Stonewall and Knights of Stonewall and Lords of Stonewall are all co-equal "guilds."

I know people disagree for a number of reasons, and I can respect that everyone has their own opinion. I for one am excited about this method of 'splitting' the guild over how I've seen others do it in the past.

Why?

Well first off, new members aren't cut off from senior members in anyway. This will go a long way to reducing a view of favoritism or clique behavior. As a new member coming into a guild, I'd much prefer to log in and see a large active community on my roster, consisting of a large variety of levels then log in and see a dozen low-level characters I've been stuck with because I joined the guild 'too late.'

Same goes for alts. As a new player, I may start the game as one character, thinking it will be my primary, request membership into the guild, get 15 levels in, see something really cool in a groupmate's story arc. Wanting to experience it for myself, I roll up a new character, and find I am enjoying the story more, and start playing the 'alt' as a main; saving your original main for when I complete the 'alt's' story.

The final piece for me, is that as a Trooper, my guild title reflects the class I have chosen in some way. When getting in my characters head, I no longer feel like the Jedi's lapdog on loan from the Republic.

That said, if game mechanics are introduced that would turn this set up into a hindrance (because at the moment, mechanics do not), every Officer has said we will revisit this and work out a new solution so Stonewall isn't at a disadvantage.

I've heard two or three people mention Fleet Achievements that would be tied to classes in some way. Would anyone please be kind enough to share a link where BioWare has discussed this. Since it was originally mentioned I have been scouring the internet, in a slight state of panic, for any discussion of Fleet Achievements by anyone but fans migrating from another game, and have failed to do so.

Awesome! This will help out greatly! If you come across any low level sith warrior gear send it my way. (thou I'm not sure what they wear, lol)

Thank you guys for the quick response and detailed information. There's a lot going on right now and unfortunately it's happening when for the first time since Early Access I can't be online every day due to family obligations.

Trust me, I understand the need for sub/alt guilds and cross guild chat. I have had multiple toons in both the Stonewall and Taint guilds on Proudmoore for years.

It might be a good idea to start a new thread with the decisions that have been made to this point and how it's going to work. I made it about half way through this very long thread last night before my eyes started burning and then had to start skimming. After reading through all of the discussion (and I'm glad we have such open discussion here, btw) my impression was that this wasn't a choice we were being given and that I would at some point log in to my Trooper or Smuggler and find them not in KoS anymore. This is the one aspect that really hit me the wrong way.

But this one line makes all the difference in the world:

NicholasJohn16 wrote:

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

Everyone appreciates being given a choice. Having the option to switch our characters ourselves after coordinating and communicating with our friends is an excellent idea. Thank you for that. I can move my non force classes to SoS if that will help even things out but thank you for giving me the freedom to choose instead of forcibly removing them.

Thank you for all your hard work keeping things under control through this hyper-accelerated growth. We all appreciate it. Excellent job!

EDIT: I don't know who picked it out but I really like the name Solders of Stonewall. B)
although, now I've got that ABBA song stuck in my head...